| An Interview with Vince Marotta | |
| (“Int” refers to the interviewer, “Vince” refers to Vince Marotta) | |
| Int: | Vince, I'm really interested to begin with in you talking about purposes of the first year Sociology units… now what you're trying to achieve in terms of educating students at that first year level in that discipline? |
| Vince: | Alright. Well, in that… ASC101's 'Introduction to Sociology': basically we're trying to impart on students a sociological perspective which differs, or what we consider differs, from psychology, biology or political explanation of the social world. So, it means looking at the experience of the individual in terms of broader social, cultural, historical factors. So that's, that's the guts of it really… |
| Int: | Right, yeah… |
| Vince: | And we do it through looking at particular topics like sport, fashion, popular culture, family and so forth. |
| Int: | And presumably you'd have a fairly diverse student cohort: it's taught on- and off-campus and you'd have a mixture… Mature age, and school leaver… |
| Vince: | Yes, yes, we've got an off and on-campus, and we got a… not only in terms of age differences, but also in terms of where students are coming from. So we have the normal Bachelor of Arts, but also from Education, from Arts and Commerce degrees, Science and Arts degrees… so we have a diverse range of students in that regard as well. |
| Int: | So, I guess a number bring certain conceptions of what it might mean to study Sociology, and what the discipline might be about. What are the sort of key teaching challenges you confront in trying to facilitate good learning in students doing first year sociology? |
| Vince: | From my perspective—and I can only speak from my perspective… the challenge for me in terms of… especially the first semester, is getting the students to think less in individualistic terms, and more in sort of cultural, broader, structural terms. So, less in terms of: everything can be explained in terms of one's choices, and one's responsibility; to one that maybe individuals are embedded in sort of social, cultural and historical contexts, that in some cases, they have very little control of. So, it's getting the students to see the world differently than what they're used to. So that's always been a challenge for me, at least in terms of teaching first year sociology students... in particular first semester, in particular the first six weeks. |
| Int: | Okay. And what sort of teaching strategies do you pursue to try and achieve that purpose… you know, how do you define effective teaching and learning, in meeting that bigger curriculum goal? You might want to talk about…you know, what you might do in a lecture or a tutorial… |
| Vince: | Yes… |
| Int: | Before we get into the online side of it… |
| Vince: | Yes… |
| Int: | …in terms of trying to get students to think differently about the world. |
| Vince: | Yeah. Well, I mean, I think in terms of my teaching strategy, in the first six weeks because most students have come out, have come from VCE, so that that transition from high school to university is all um, is difficult for them. And they're used to having a very proactive teacher, who stands up front and tells them 'these are the issues, these are the major problems or ideas that we're going to cover, and this is how we're going to cover them'. Anyway, so they're used to that style of teaching. So, initially, I adopt that style of teaching. So I make sure the students are reasonably comfortable, in terms of the class, but very much a teacher-centred approach—which is unfortunate, but still, I think appropriate in the first three or four weeks. So it's me showing them, telling them, and using the blackboard a lot, and they like that. So, using the blackboard, using visual cues, diagrams, anything that allows them to see these concepts, ideas, visually. So I use the board a lot in the first three to four, even five weeks. So there's a lot of things we need to talk about in terms of: what we call the sociological imagination and it's very hard for them to grasp that notion. If I told them, 'this is what the sociological imagination is', it's difficult for them to grasp it, so I show them in terms of diagrams, in terms of case studies, so I'm using these visual cues. So that's important for me. I get good feedback in that regard. Yeah, so that's what I, that's what I do. Using case studies a lot, newspapers, bringing newspapers along…yeah. |
| Int: | Now, in terms of Deakin Studies Online, and getting involved in doing some work online … how did you actually come to be involved? I know that everybody has to have a very basic DSO presence, but what you've done is a little bit beyond, [Vince makes 'mmm' of agreement] the very basic, level one compliance. Can you tell us how you actually came to be doing the things that you've been doing online? Then maybe talk a little bit about what you've done? |
| Vince: | Well, basically out of curiosity! [Laughs] …and wanting to see what all this is about, particularly the assessment, and tests, and I thought that because what I do in class is set practice tests, you know, every three or four weeks. So we go over issues that we've covered in the past three weeks. So the students don't forget… which they tend to do. So, 'we've done this topic, that's it. We're not coming back to it'. So, that's what I do in class, I organise a practice test, multiple choice usually. And so I thought, well, maybe I could do this online, and see if it works and if the students like it or not. So that was my rationale for it. |
| Int: | Okay, so in terms of the mechanics of making it happen online… now, you've clearly written the multiple choice questions anyway, separately from putting them online… |
| Vince: | That's right, yes… |
| Int: | …so the issue was really, getting those questions working online, in DSO, and what… the students doing them, and getting automatic result, feedback? |
| Vince: | Yes, yep. And I like the idea that you can actually put comments on the questions, and if they get the question wrong, you could say why they got the question wrong, or if they answer a instead of b, you can tell them why it may be a; but not necessarily a, it should be b, and this is why b is the correct answer. So, you can explain to them. I like that idea; that you can actually interact with the students as they're doing the test... |
| Int: | And presumably, students' doing that subject…whether it be Geelong, Warrnambool… Is it offered down at Warrnambool? |
| Vince: | Yeah, it's offered on all campuses. |
| Int: | And off campus...I mean they can do it independently, not being on any particular campus or studying with any particular lecturer. |
| Vince: | Mmm. [agreement] |
| Int: | Can you give us some idea of the style of question that you put together, that you think is useful? |
| Vince: | In terms of multiple choice…? In terms of false and true answers…? |
| Int: | Well, yes, that part of it, and also the type of level of thinking that you might be actually assessing. Is it very much at the sort of the knowledge of the concept level? |
| Vince: | Yes, yes. |
| Int: | Or is it the literary, the more challenging? |
| Vince: | Initially it was about regurgitation of the facts, and ideas. You know, this is what so-and-so defined as this particular sociological concept. So I'm wondering, well, do you remember what this means? That sort of question. But I did try to put in questions which were a bit more complex—testing the students' understanding, rather than their ability to regurgitate particular definitions. So there were a couple of questions there where I tried to do that. And I'd prefer to do those types of questions, rather than a multiple choice… and that's where I'm heading to. So, in this semester, in particular, the subject that I'm teaching, I'm hopefully going to frame the questions in a way that will allow the students to demonstrate their understanding, rather than facts. |
| Int: | Mmm, yeah. And, is there an actual mark attached to their performance on each particular online test or quiz that you do? Or is it purely... |
| Vince: | Not… no, not at this stage, no. For the subject that I'm going to teach this semester, which is 'Migration and Multiculturalism', Peter and I—Peter Mewitt —may be saying to the students that this will be part of your assessment. That you go on DSO and you do this quiz online. That's right, yep. So we're hoping to do that. So it wasn't last year, but hopefully this year. |
| Int: | Have you sort of picked up, sort of student views about the value of having, you know, the online component more generally to first year Sociology, and particularly, the value of doing the online test? |
| Vince: | The ASC102, which was a testing ground for me, in terms of the test: most students did do them, found it useful. The only problem that I was getting was that some students couldn't find the test, you know, those sort of things. And if they could find the test, they couldn't open it. So this is why, in ASC102 it wasn't compulsory to do the test, it was just a way of enhancing your understanding of the subject, and you weren't marked on doing the test. But, yeah… Those that did do it, the sort of feedback that I was getting, that 'you know, this is good' especially, because I did put it for off-campus students, and I said, well, 'this is not compulsory, do it as a way of studying for the exam'. And some of those students did respond and say, 'look, it was useful and we found it a really… a way of guiding our reading'. |
| Int: | And you mentioned, where you might go in the future, what you're going to do in the immediate future with developing the quizzes, and they might be worth marks. You also mentioned to me previously that, you know, lectures have been audio-streamed… |
| Vince: | That's right. |
| Int: | …with one of the first year units… |
| Vince: | Yeah, 101 last year was audio-streamed, yes. |
| Int: | What's your sense of, you know, what you might like to do in the future, beyond online assessment, maybe audio-stream lectures: which could really help the overall student learning experience in first year Sociology? |
| Vince: | Mmm [agreement]. Well in particular for off-campus students, I think that's important, audio-streaming lectures, and also the Learning Modules, in particular for off-campus students. I think there's a lot of potential there for off-campus students in terms of the Learning Modules. And I haven't got my mind around that yet, so this is something I'll be playing around with again this year. So I played around with the quizzes last year, and it's going to be definite for this year, in terms of my… um, one of the subjects I'll be teaching. So, I'll be looking at Learning Modules, for, especially off-campus. Because I hadn't been a Unit Chair before, 'til last year, and I took over ASC102, and I didn't realise how much off-campus students are dependent on you, and for information. Some—I've got no percentages here—but some can go ahead, read the Study Guide, the Reader, and get the gist of the course. But some really need a lot of guidance... and I would imagine maybe 70% probably need a lot of guidance. So I think using Learning Modules, using audio-streaming, more hands-on approach would be useful for off-campus students. Obviously workload would be an issue here, but, I think in terms of what the student's needs are, from that perspective, I think that's the way we should be heading, in terms of ASC101 and ASC102 for off-campus mode only. I don't believe audio-streaming would be useful for on-campus students. |
| Int: | In summing up on, on every front Vince: you know, a new staff member comes to Deakin and joins your particular area… what advice would you provide that person, or any person coming to Deakin in terms of, I guess, easing into the use of technology, to help their teaching and their learners, based on your experience? |
| Vince: | Well, I'd tell them to spend a lot of time in front of the computer, fiddling around—actually fiddling around. Looking at the Deakin Studies Online, going to each particular page, having a look what it can do, what it can't do; and also going to the DSO sessions. But I found the DSO sessions, that if you don't do it straight away afterwards, then, you just forget. And then it takes so long for you to get back to where you were originally. So for me, like, going back to doing the tests, I'd have to spend a couple of hours getting used to the program again, 'cause it's been a while since I used it again. But I think, for new staff members, it's time consuming—Let me put it that way. So they… I would recommend that you would have to spend a bit of time in front of the computer, and being comfortable with DSO. And finding your way around DSO, 'cause I know there are still a few staff in Arts who still feel uncomfortable, and don't know where to go, and what I find now is that… what I think is automatic, for some is still a maze. |
| Int: | Mmm [agreement] |
| Vince: | And the only way I've come to this position is by spending a lot of time in front of the computer. And just going back to the quiz, I mentioned that to you before, that it was time consuming at the beginning. Even though I went to the DSO session, it took me probably close to six hours to work out the quiz, put it on from 'Respondus', I think it was, then onto DSO, and it still wasn't working, and I had to talk to a few people on DSO, 'what am I doing wrong, it's not working…' you know, so it took me at least six to eight hours, I think, before I thought I'd got it right, and even then there was still a bit of fiddling on the sides, you know, doing a bit here, a bit there. So, it's time consuming. But it's worth it. You know, next time I do the quiz, it obviously won't take me six hours, it'll take me two hours. And the next time I do it, it won't take me as long, you know. So yes, I think initially it is time-consuming. |
| Int: | Maybe at the end of the day it'll just do itself! [Laughter] |
| Vince: | Yeah, maybe! [laughs] but yeah, that's one of the things I would probably make sure that the new member of staff would be aware of: albeit time consuming, in terms of understanding DSO and using it. |
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