An Interview with Peter Poteralski
(“Inter” refers to the interviewer, “Poteralski” refers to Peter Poteralski)
Inter:	Peter you're an Educational Designer in e-learning and you work at Deakin Prime and you spend quite a lot of your time in recent years working on the CPA Australia professional accountancy Program. One thing you worked on in particular is a major multimedia application which tries to teach various aspects of professional ethics and I just wonder to start with Peter whether you might explain the context for the development of that particular program.
Poteralski:	Okay, up to now the CPA program, predominantly the content is offered as, in a textual mode so when we designed the CPA Ethics program we designed it to complement the written segment guide, the self assessment tests and the computer based testing that was already in place.
Inter:	Okay, so how did you define in a sense a unique learning value in developing that application in relation to the other things you've mentioned like the self assessment and the textual material?
Poteralski:	What we were trying to do was to provide an opportunity to link the segment content with things like the CPA Australia Professional Code of Conduct and the ethical theory of frameworks that you would use to make some of that decision making in the area of accountancy.
Inter:	And I guess the key educational strategy or pedagogy embodied in the multimedia program is really the case study which we tend to think of when we think of business and accountancy type education. Why did you choose the case studies, the key teaching method in trying to convey good understanding of professional ethics in the accountancy area?
Poteralski:	Well the case study approach is one that's been there for awhile. It was originally adopted to demonstrate the various ethical dilemmas that a CPA might encounter in their workplace and so what we've done is we've selected a range of topical issues that have been presented to provide the student opportunities to apply the application to various ethical frameworks and to reinforce your understanding and acceptance of the Code of Professional Conduct.
Inter:	Peter this may have happened before your time being involved in the multimedia design and development work, but do you have a sense of where the content for the cases came from?
Poteralski:	Actually before we go on with that, a couple of other points I could make about you're earlier question, yeah the other thing about, because the case studies are now computer based the other thing that's occurred is that they allow the candidate to consider work based ethical scenarios as a lead into the theoretical content that is covered in the actual study guide and the candidates have actually got an opportunity to either study the content first thing in the actual segment guide or they can work, jump straight into the actual computer based case studies and it's basically, just in time learning, so they're learning as they look through the case studies as to how they would tackle it. So there's basically the two alternatives, one is to acquire the knowledge first before you apply it, the other one is the just-in-time application acquisition knowledge.
Inter:	And Peter could you explain briefly how a particular case study might work in the programme? What's the value of the multimedia elements in bringing the case to life?
Poteralski:	As I said earlier the content has been based on previous written case approach and all we did in this case, we got a subject matter expert from RMIT to develop scripts and ideas for visual and audio based on those written case studies. So what we've attempted to do is to bring them to life effectively by putting in graphics and audio.
Inter:	What was your particular contribution as an Ed. Designer with a real interest in the e-learning, the multimedia and providing advice to the content originator in regard to the good use of media in bringing the cases to life? How did you work with that person and sow the seeds of possibly what could be done with the new media?
Poteralski:	With the text case studies obviously it's a sort of fairly dry presentation where there is a lot of reading going on, there's, some of the things we were trying to do is to pick up on the sorts of things that you would encounter in the workplace so that you had to be visual and diligent in trying to work out when things appeared to be causing a problem. The other thing we were trying to do was to, as we know with ethics, ethical decisions there's quite a large attitudinal influence in those and that's what we were trying to do, we were trying to actually personalise some of those issues, add some emotive elements to them so that the candidates could become more engaged and engrossed in the actual situations.
Inter:	And how did you do that Peter? I've noticed that there are characters in each case study and they're brought to life by a visual and auditory commentary. How did you bring these characters to life using the different media?
Poteralski:	We were, originally considered the possibility of using video, but because of the heavy data transmission issues and the fact that we wanted to put it on CD ROM and we didn't want to make it too complicated we decided that we could quite easily get that information across just using audio and photographs and what we've done with the various elements we've used is we've looked at stakeholders involved in the actual cases, people that had some influence or will be affected by it, by certain decisions that were made and by the use of photographs and the ability to be able to hear comments of their opinions on different things we've tried to enrich that particular background knowledge and understanding of what's happening in the case rather than just relying on purely textual things. I suppose to a degree also it provided the candidates with some opportunity to choose who they want to listen to first rather than in the case of a textual based case study it's predominately linear so you just read through and the information provided to you, just as the author intended whereas in the case of some of this interactive multimedia the user can actually choose which things they look at first and they can interpret their emphasis that they want to place on that information.
Inter:	And Peter you make your contribution as an Ed Designer and you've got somebody creating the content. How did CPA Australia, you know the people back at headquarters and the professional body receive the completed program? What was their view of it from a professional body perspective?
Poteralski:	Well it's been particularly well received to the extent that we've now got another segment that utilises this particular approach and produce a similar set of case studies and within this particular reporting on professional practice segment in the ethics package that we produce there's also been another two additional cases that have been added so I think that probably is fair justification of the appreciation of this particular approach.
Inter:	Do you get any sparks flying in regard to them seeing the content as being potentially a little controversial, or constructive sparks flying in regard to them going, 'that's very good, how about another scenario on this particular ethical dilemma' or so on. Do they react constructively in saying this is the way you could improve the product further?
Poteralski:	Well because we really need to, the cases developed based on the Professional Code of Conduct and so on, so and also we're dealing with the ethical frameworks so the designers actually try and catered for those, for those particular constraints. Generally, I think the only area that we perhaps, there's more flexibility is trying to pick up cases which perhaps got more topical current interests. I think the other issue, taking that approach is that you, as we well know, these multimedia packages take quite a while to develop, the content takes a while to be developed and massaged and refined because with multimedia you don't want something that's going to take you several hours, it needs to be succinct, concise and so on because you really want to tease out the elements that you want the candidate to achieve and also as we know one of the issues with distance education learners is their very time poor and part of the reason why they take on distance education programs often is because of this fact. So they really need to cut to the chase in terms of the learning process so therefore, while you try and embellish the learning environment and make it rich and relative, by the same token you really have to be careful that you don't make it so big that, that that's it, they don't perceive it as being a useful tool to achieve their examination success.
Inter:	Now you've touched on the student feedback or experience in using the program, the people who do the CPA and make some observations there. Peter are there other things that you've learnt in regard to participant feedback on the use of the program?
Poteralski:	Well certainly we've found that those candidates who have used the package extensively, the responses have been very, very positive, however the usage hasn't been as high as we would have hoped and as I've mentioned earlier typically we know that distance education students have many factors competing for their time and attention. They've got work, family, recreation, social life etc and their primary purpose is completing the CPA accreditation with a minimum amount of effort required and they don't really always see that the segment that they're working on is necessarily providing them with skills they can implement in the workplace, rather their primary objective is to pass the examination. So sometimes they don't perhaps see the use of the computer based education package as being a primary source of knowledge. However, those that have used it certainly appreciated the modular structure of the program and the fact that they can dip into it and look at the various scenarios and access the resources as they need to, they certainly appreciate the value of the package.
Inter:	Peter, beyond this particular multimedia program, you've been involved in other application tool development which I think might be relevant to the teaching of ethics and other areas of the CPA. One thing you've developed is the Written Answer Tutor Program and I wonder whether you might explain the rationale behind that development and how you see it as potentially adding value to things like the CPA programme?
Poteralski:	Well presently the way that the case studies are structured, the students are presented with a case and they will have several tasks or questions on which they have to attempt an answer and once they've done that, what they can then do is view a suggested answer which they can use to compare how, what they performed in their response to that particular tasks and questions. Now in many respects this doesn't vary very much from what happens in the written situation. With a Written Answer Tutor what we've tried to do there is to set up a pseudo tutorial situation where as we know in the tutorial situation the students are presented with a question, one student is asked to answer that particular question and while they're answering I'm sure the majority of other students in the actual tute their brains are whirring at a hundred miles per hour thinking now okay how would I answer that question in case the tutor fires it across to me. So what we've tried to do in the answer, Written Answer Tutor is to set up several of these pseudo student responses that effectively the student can listen to and use those to refine their own answer and there are several different stages to that, they can initially look at this pseudo student responses, they can then have a look at them to see which particular parts of those responses were correct, partially correct or incorrect. So that sort of gives them the second level of support, the first one being looking at the other student's responses and as we know often students, they just need to see somebody else's answer to give them a bit of a kick start on how they might answer rather than ringing up the tutor and say, how the hell do I get started on this? So that they get that support by looking at another typical student's response, they than get an appraisal, which parts of that are correct, incorrect or partially correct. We take it a stage further in that they can then look at the rationale of why those particular parts are correct, partially correct or incorrect. So that's stage three and then finally, once they've refined and done the appropriate number of iterations where they're satisfied with their own particular answer they can then have a look at the suggested answer. So really there are four levels there that they can use to refine, reflect on their own answer before they finally make an appraisal on how they've preformed. So we hope that in the future we'll be incorporating that more in the case study answers because that will give the students more opportunities to reflect and refine their actual answers rather than just looking at a suggested answer and going yeah, yeah, yeah that sort of looks okay and move onto the next one. We all know that that's a very easy way to appraise your own answer whereas if you have to really reflect on it, you're probably going to come at something that's a little bit closer to a correct answer.
Inter:	Peter you can obviously spend a lot of time and effort and energy developing a small number of very big applications which can be quite resource intensive or maybe you can go a different route and develop a much larger number of smaller more interactive exercises which can add learning value and I believe you've done something like that in trying to set up a particular exercise on Capital Gains tax and I wonder whether you might comment on that type of technology development which is a little bit different to the ones we've been talking about to date.
Poteralski:	Yes I think we know that with these larger styled developments that they take a lot more time and effort in constructing them and as we've just shown with the number of students, candidates using the ethics package that really unless it's really close to what they see as being a tool to pass the examination, they may or may not use it. So what we've tried to do is develop what we, I suppose commonly call learning objects where, which is small little packages where our students can interact with them and enhance their learning and one of these we did was we developed this small package for the, do you understand the types of GST collection and it's what I'd call an interactive diagram where instead of presenting the student with a diagram which explains the whole process of GST collection, the various types and them having to look at that diagram and dismember it and trying to understand it. What we've done is by those particular interactive diagram, what allows the candidate to do, is to construct the diagram and work through each phase of the process. So it means that they can understand, check their understanding of each level as they're progressing rather than being presented with a completed diagram and have to try and dismember it and understand it. So we feel there is a lot of application in diagrams that appear in almost any area of learning because it gives, giving the learner the opportunity to be able to build up the diagram is far better than having to force them to dismember it and understand it.
Inter:	If you have a step back Peter and sort of think about the whole field of continuing professional education and possibly the future of digital media and online technologies in supporting, well continuing professional education, do you have a sense of what the future might hold and what the possibilities might be beyond the things you've been doing to date?
Poteralski:	Well certainly the technologies are enabling us to create realistic scenarios which overcome the issues of time and place and when I talk about time and place we often just think about student accessibility, you know we're quite familiar with all those sorts of issues but the other thing with the time and place issue is the content presentation, this allows us to do things like time compression, retracing of history etc and so we can really set up these scenarios in a way that the learner can control their presentation and with a variety of digital media we've got available we can make them a fairly close approximation of the real life situation, you know I mean, an example of that is the video you guys have used in HotCopy. The other areas collaborative tool, collaboration tools which seem to be a very hot topic at the moment to encourage active peer learning and opportunities and enhanced team assignments and assessment packages but we also see that packages like the Written Answer Tutor provide opportunities for peer assessment and peer learning and I suppose the beauty of those is that we present the student with a more controllable and scalable learning environment to kick start them at least to get an understanding of the basics before they than get thrust into a discussion list or a discussion board or whatever to try and tease out the more complex issues that are involved in a particular subject. Yeah, there's a variety of different peer assessment tools that I've investigated in the past and there are really are solutions waiting for a problem.
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